Sunday, May 22, 2005

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Ironically, the result you so crave will undoubtely result in a further weakening of the 'weak euro' you so deplore. In fact, it's already happening... the prospect of a French "Non" (and a Dutch "Nee") has caused the euro to lose approximately 5% of its value over the past couple of weeks. If the euro does crash after the two referenda, which would make any future trips to the U.S. much more expensive for you, remember to blame the French socialists!

Oh, wait... you're now on the same side as the French (and Dutch) socialists, who also loathe the constitutional treaty, but for entirely different reasons. As the French media have been pointing out, it's entirely unclear which "Non" (or "Nee") should serve as a basis for renegotiations -- the "Non" of the French who think the treaty is too friendly to left-wing values like "fairness" and "diversity" and so on, or the "Non" of those America-hating leftists who think it will destroy their cherished welfare state?

vaara (ip:80.127.26.54) 22 May 2005 - 12:41 uur

Vaara,

I think you have missed the point of the "weak euro" arguements made on this site. The large part of the arguement deals with the valuation of the guilder before entry into the single currency.

You speak of the euro "crashing." Were you one of the people in 2004 complaining about the unsustainable strength of the euro damaging european economies? Do you pick and choose which arguement serves you best dealing with the same topic?

It is despite the Non/Nee support of european socialists that many find themselves in the same camp. The anti-capitalism, anti-free market rants carried out by Paris have been no answer to the socialist claims of the same.

Since you enjoy guilt by association, I must ask, as a supporter of the constitution you must agree that WWIII will occur on 2 June in the event of a Nee. Afterall, you are on the same side of the Oui/Ja. Your logical reasoning is underwhelming.

Zazva (ip:69.140.64.10) 22 May 2005 - 16:34 uur

So where did I say I was a supporter of the constitution? If your entire 'argument' against me is based on that supposition, then your entire argument is false.

I'm still undecided, mainly because I haven't read the document yet (though I have read bits of it, and found little so far to justify the anti-constitution hysteria on *either* side). But being American, I don't *have* to decide.

Some of the more compelling anti-constitution arguments center on the fact that so many parts of it are ambiguous. But then so are several parts of the Holy of Holies, i.e. the U.S. Constitution. If only the Founders had been able to consult the editors of the "Economist" when they drafted the Second Amendment!

And for the record, I have never complained about the euro being too strong. In fact, the strong euro benefits me personally, because I get paid in euros but my debts are in U.S. dollars. Still, I won't be sorry to see it drop a bit, because it's evident that it's been seriously overvalued for the past couple of years -- this *despite* the fact that Greece and Portugal and all those other "weak" economies were allowed to join it.

vaara (ip:80.127.26.54) 22 May 2005 - 22:51 uur

Vaara,

When you decide to take a firm position on an issue please post. Then others will be able to debate with you.

Zazva (ip:69.140.64.10) 22 May 2005 - 0:15 uur

OK, here's a firm position:

People should base their vote on the actual content of the constitutional treaty, instead of allowing themselves to be influenced by ideologically-motivated fearmongering.

vaara (ip:80.127.26.54) 22 May 2005 - 8:39 uur

People can choose to vote from an informed or un-informed position. The question is, are you going to vote Ja or Nee on 1 June? A simple one word reply is all that is required.

Zazva (ip:69.140.64.10) 22 May 2005 - 17:26 uur

Neither.

vaara (ip:80.127.26.54) 22 May 2005 - 18:12 uur

Vaara,

You are so bold.

Zazva (ip:69.140.64.10) 22 May 2005 - 19:26 uur

No, I'm so foreign. Unless there's a clause in the EU Constitution that retroactively allows non-citizens to vote in national referenda even before the treaty is enacted, I will not be able to vote on the 1st of June.

So, you and the French Communists (60% of whom are agains the treaty, according to a poll published today in Libération) don't have to worry... there's absolutely no chance that I'll vote Yes. Because the EU is just fine the way it is, right?

vaara (ip:80.127.26.54) 22 May 2005 - 19:31 uur

Vaara,

As a foreigner you shouldn't be worrying your pretty head about such tawdry things like constitutions and communists. Leave this kind of talk for the grown-ups. Go back under the bridge now.....

Zazva (ip:69.140.64.10) 22 May 2005 - 7:20 uur

You just can't do it, can you? You can't admit that on this issue at least, you're on precisely the same side as the French Communists.

And your latest comment shows that the political classes in Europe that are desperately pleading for a Yes vote aren't the only elitists around.

I seem to remember that plenty of foreigners took an avid interest in MY country's election last year. I don't know whether you were one of them -- your blog doesn't go back that far -- but if you're one of those non-Americans who cheered the re-election of GWB, then you're not just an elitist -- you're a hypocrite, too.

So, enjoy your victory party on Saturday night! And don't forget to hold your red banner high!

vaara (ip:80.127.26.54) 22 May 2005 - 9:15 uur

since the election is on sunday i am not sure as to why the "victory" party will be saturday?

did you not get your invite? if you do decide to stroll in be sure and have the words to the Internationale memorized.

Zazva (ip:69.140.64.10) 22 May 2005 - 17:06 uur

My mistake. Sunday it is. Coincidentally, I'll be in France then. Shall I pick up a nice 'Force Ouvrière' banner for you? Or maybe a 'Non' poster featuring the cherubic visage of José Bové?

Incidentally, I've thought of a possible upside to a massive 'Nee' vote on the 1st of June... maybe it will cause the Balkenende government to collapse! As Arjan rightly points out, they way they've been running the 'Ja' campaign is disgraceful. Heads should roll, preferably that of Jan-Peter himself, but I'd settle for Rita Verdonk's too.

vaara (ip:80.127.26.54) 22 May 2005 - 19:23 uur

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